Hello!
We at the Swedish Linux association[1] have a advocacy group that promotes free software, not just Linux as the name of our association might indicate, but free software in general, in Sweden.
We really like the OpenCD[2] and the Knoppix[3] GNU/Linux distribution. We think they are great help when promoting free software. They both make it really easy for new users to try free software at ease in their own homes on their own computers without the hassle many feels about installing a new operating system on their computer.
We came up with the idea to take this further and to take advantage of the moment with the user to promote free software in a wider perspective. We came up with what we call "the journey" (yes the name might change). What we want to do is a CD (or other medium) that doesn't only contain free software but also information about the free software movement. All the way from its birth to the present. By doing this we hope to place each program in a wider perspective and describe not only what it is but also why it was written and maybe why it looks/works like it does. Everything within the path of the journey. We hope that this makes the CD (or what it will be) more then a CD with free software. Something that makes a bigger impression. Of course there will be only free software on the CD with source code. Of course there will also be an explanation why the code is there.
The goal is to in a simple and interesting way present the free software movement and provide the user with ready to run free software. Software that they hopefully will enjoy not only because its free and does the job but also because they know why its there and some about the philosophy and the efforts behind it.
We hope to make this available so it can be deployed both on the OpenCD and Knoppix. We intend to make the first version in Swedish. After that we hope to have an English version if it is wanted. So Swedish contributors are wanted.
I really would like some comments on this and I have a bunch of questions.
- Do you think this is this a good idea? - Do you want it? - Does this already exist? - Does my English make sense? - If not, I'm sorry, did my best!
Best regards,
/Marcus Rejås
[1] http://www.se.linux.org [2] http://www.theopencd.org [3] http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 07:20:53PM +0100, Marcus Rejås wrote:
We at the Swedish Linux association[1] have a advocacy group that promotes free software, not just Linux as the name of our association might indicate, but free software in general, in Sweden.
Advocating a kernel also is quite tedious at times as most people are only interested in a real operating system... :)
We really like the OpenCD[2] and the Knoppix[3] GNU/Linux distribution. We think they are great help when promoting free software. They both make it really easy for new users to try free software at ease in their own homes on their own computers without the hassle many feels about installing a new operating system on their computer.
Please note that current versions of Knoppix still contain non-free Software. If you want to base your work on Knoppix you have to take good care to add the freedom to it first.
(Check ftp://ftp.intevation.de/users/bernhard/free_software_knoppix/ which is a draft description to produce what I call "Free Software Knoppix".)
What we want to do is a CD (or other medium) that doesn't only contain free software but also information about the free software movement. All the way from its birth to the present. By doing this we hope to place each program in a wider perspective and describe not only what it is but also why it was written and maybe why it looks/works like it does. Everything within the path of the journey.
- Do you think this is this a good idea?
Yes. We need more documentation about the Free Software movement anyway. To use applications and their story to work towards the bigger picture as the potential of being an approach that picks up the user were he currently stands.
- Does this already exist?
I'm not aware of such a project.
- Does my English make sense?
Yes.
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 07:20:53PM +0100, Marcus Rejås wrote:
I really would like some comments on this and I have a bunch of questions.
- Do you think this is this a good idea?
Basically yes. I'm just afraid that a CD with 100% free and also "patent-free" software will not be very popular, especially since even the Linux Kernel is not fully GPL-compliant due to what I heared.
Also, if you want to include the sources on the CD, you should calculate that about 66% of the CD will be occupied by (obsoleted very fast) sources, which nobody who is not already involved in Free Software would want or understand. That limits the amount of usable programs on the CD very much.
I would opt for a DVD release in the case that you really want to include the sources on the same medium. The GPL does not require you to do this and offers different options.
- Do you want it?
Me personally: Of course.
I'm just not sure about the "average user of non-free operating systems who would like to switch". If this CD should promote Free Software, it has to contain a lot of stuff that users of proprietary systems expect from a new OS.
Remember: Most people have no interest in "philosophy" and don't even care about licenses or legality, for that matter.
Knoppix contains some "non-free" programs like the Gimp "non-free" plugins, acroread and the Java RE, simply because they fulfil functionality that is not yet present, or not "allowed" in Free software components.
- Does this already exist?
Not that I would know of. But Bernhard Reiter from the FSF europe had once asked a similar question, you may want to include him on the list (if he is not already reading it).
Regards -Klaus Knopper -- Dipl.-Ing. Klaus Knopper Dansenberger Straße 44 Phone+Fax: +49 631 51504 67661 Kaiserslautern http://www.knopper.net/ GERMANY ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- LinuxTag 2003 - Europes largest Linux Expo Where .com meets .org Phone +49 180 5 LINUXTAG Fax +49 180 5 LINUXFAX http://www.linuxtag.org/ Technical Solutions
On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 09:50:18PM +0100, Klaus Knopper wrote:
Basically yes. I'm just afraid that a CD with 100% free and also "patent-free" software will not be very popular, especially since even the Linux Kernel is not fully GPL-compliant due to what I heared.
Also, if you want to include the sources on the CD, you should calculate that about 66% of the CD will be occupied by (obsoleted very fast) sources, which nobody who is not already involved in Free Software would want or understand. That limits the amount of usable programs on the CD very much.
I would opt for a DVD release in the case that you really want to include the sources on the same medium. The GPL does not require you to do this and offers different options.
I get your point. Thank you for the information. I want to make a point by actually having the source on the CD (or extra CD) so that the user, even it he or she can't and won't look at it, can see that it is there. I'm also aware that there are different options offered by the GPL. In the end there might be no sources on the medium.
I'm just not sure about the "average user of non-free operating systems who would like to switch". If this CD should promote Free Software, it has to contain a lot of stuff that users of proprietary systems expect from a new OS.
Remember: Most people have no interest in "philosophy" and don't even care about licenses or legality, for that matter.
I am aware of that. That is one thing I would like to change by offereing an interesting journey with information about free software. I'm interested in it. This project might make it easier for the user to find the information and get some good programs while reading it.
- Does this already exist?
Not that I would know of. But Bernhard Reiter from the FSF europe had once asked a similar question, you may want to include him on the list (if he is not already reading it).
He has read this ;-)
Thank you very much for your input.
/Marcus
Klaus Knopper knopper@knopper.net wrote:
Remember: Most people have no interest in "philosophy" and don't even care about licenses or legality, for that matter.
I think most people are ignorant about the philosophy and legality, but I have not found that most have "no interest" in it. They are just waiting to be awakened. A Knoppix-style CD that was had an aim of giving this wake-up call would be a useful tool.
[...]
Knoppix contains some "non-free" programs like the Gimp "non-free" plugins, acroread and the Java RE, simply because they fulfil functionality that is not yet present, or not "allowed" in Free software components.
I think the GIMP non-free is only GIF writing support, which is obsolete for a long time now. We have xpdf and gv that does most of acroread's job and JREs like sablevm and orp, which I *think* are under free licences. (Check before use!)