I'm doing a text about the potential damages of proprietary software and have mentioned the "celebrity cases" of Windows installing "Windows Genuine Advantage" with the automatic updates, Apple reserving the right to zap any and all iPhone Apps it doesn't like and the Amazon Kindle censorship case - trying to argue, obviously, that if all software was shipped as free software as a matter of course, that kind of behaviour would not be as big a problem as users and organizations would be able to change it.
Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
br Carsten Agger Denmark
2009/10/13 Carsten Agger agger@c.dk:
Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
Any forms of DRM at all.
- d.
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I concur with David Gerard, that DRM is at least one (of many) corners where end-users feel that they've been bitten by proprietary software vendors. Unforunately, there are *many* cases where the end user gets bitten, but either doesn't realize it, or (more likely) thinks that it's normal for "computer-stuff" to be like that.
Here are some cases that I've already seen personally (and yes, many of them are DRM). Sorry, no "list of people", but maybe it helps as inspiration for finding more?
(1) Governmental institutions: bought proprietary software from vendor XY and uses it for everyday, core functionality. At a later point in time, they are issuing a call for tender for a new feature/functionality they need, but in fact *noone* can seriously compete, because it's impossible for non-vendor XY alternatives to properly interact with their core system. Vendor-lock-in in governmental institutions is a direct loss for the tay payer. :(
(2) You cannot install version XY of program Z, because you have only have a "home" edition of Windows.
(3) A company develops hardware/software for a very specific purpose and sells it like an embedded system. It works and is known to be stable. Unfortunately one day, they're not allowed to deliver an application (e.g. OS, database, ...) anymore due to licensing restrictions (or simply end-of-life) they depend on. They are unable to sell a stable version and are forced to upgrade/switch - causing unnecessary, additional development/support costs and diminishes the reliability-quality of their product.
(4) You cannot play *any* of all your own WMAs (honestly copied from your own CD collection), because after setting up your computer again, it's lost its "key" and therefore does not believe that those WMAs are yours. Unfortunately, you've neither been told now knew that there even was such a key or DRM involved when backing up your music collection CDs.
(5) Trying to print a "printing disabled" DRMed PDF in Acrobat Reader. kpdf on the other side has DRM as option to disable ;)
(6) In a recording studio: Every band member can listen to the most recent version of a track immediately after the recording session on their MP3 player - except for those who own an MP3-Player that requires a vendor-specific application/driver to communicate with (instead of plain usb-storage). Sony- and Apple-devices are popular for that.
(7) A classic is to own original, bought content on e.g. DVD, but because of "region protection" are unable to play it on your current DVD player.
... I could go on ...
Pb
David Gerard wrote:
Any forms of DRM at all.
some organisation is forced by law to use proprietaray SAP software. in order to archieve some kind of inteoperabiltiy they code some of ther own software around it. but they are not allowed by the SAP licence to access the SAP tables that are necessary for their tool more often then once a day.
SAP dictates what you can do with your own data!
mond.
We (Royal Institute of Technology, and my company Forsslund Systems) have very much issues with proprietary drivers for haptic (force) feedback devices. The drivers are not only proprietary but also really outdated and bad. The manufacturer of the devices wants to sell licenses of their API, and doesn't work on improving the hardware. They have patents that restricts competitors to make similar devices and/or the competitors sees it risky to enter that market. So basically we are stuck with badly functional drivers and non-optimal engineered and non-updated hardware due both to proprietary software and patents. So it clearly harms innovation for sure
Best regards Jonas Forsslund
2009/10/13 Carsten Agger agger@c.dk:
I'm doing a text about the potential damages of proprietary software and have mentioned the "celebrity cases" of Windows installing "Windows Genuine Advantage" with the automatic updates, Apple reserving the right to zap any and all iPhone Apps it doesn't like and the Amazon Kindle censorship case - trying to argue, obviously, that if all software was shipped as free software as a matter of course, that kind of behaviour would not be as big a problem as users and organizations would be able to change it.
Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
br Carsten Agger Denmark
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Itunes not supporting non-apple hardware - palm having to use Apples USB id.
Conflicts between different OS/service-pack requirements of different applications.
As a contrary example, I spoke to an ex-Sun distributor who wrote a scsi driver (ages ago) for some older Sun hardware so that a new SunOS release would run on the older hardware.
Sam
* Carsten Agger wrote, On 13/10/09 12:04:
I'm doing a text about the potential damages of proprietary software and have mentioned the "celebrity cases" of Windows installing "Windows Genuine Advantage" with the automatic updates, Apple reserving the right to zap any and all iPhone Apps it doesn't like and the Amazon Kindle censorship case - trying to argue, obviously, that if all software was shipped as free software as a matter of course, that kind of behaviour would not be as big a problem as users and organizations would be able to change it.
Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
br Carsten Agger Denmark
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
This may be at a different level from what you have in mind, and relates more to the standards issue you would prefer to deal with later; but the issues are inextricably linked: access to data/ information/ knowledge in free/open standard formats via free/open protocols with software libre, ... saving lives and enabling a2k and innovation in communities towards self-determination, self-empowerment, etc.
"There have been tragic examples of people being unable to access information required to save lives on account of proprietary and encrypted file formats (see for example When Open Standards Really Matter - The Katrina Factor)".
This sentence indicates possible consequences in certain contexts: "If a learning resource helps a community to decrease infant death rates through better primary health care and strategies for managing HIV/AIDS, the license should not disallow users to help their neighbours in the next village by sending them a copy, or a localised version."
http://wikieducator.org/Say_Libre#Live_the_Libre_Vision
The Katrina link in turn refers to a tsunami disaster in Thailand: "Each uses different data and document formats. Relief is slowed; coordination is complicated. The need for common, open standards for disaster management was never more stark or compelling." http://www.cio.com.au/article/139358/group_urges_it_open_standards_report?fp...
You might also find it interesting to read thoughts about the advantages of FLOSS for "developing" nations. Find relevants links here: http://www.infonomics.nl/FLOSS/papers.htm
and older docs which reflect the thinking in South Africa some years back:
Foss Policy Approved by Cabinet: http://www.oss.gov.za/?page_id=706
Free/Libre and Open Source Software and Open Standards in South Africa: A Critical Issue for Addressing the Digital Divide: http://www.naci.org.za/floss/
K
---- Carsten Agger wrote:
I'm doing a text about the potential damages of proprietary software and have mentioned the "celebrity cases" of Windows installing "Windows Genuine Advantage" with the automatic updates, Apple reserving the right to zap any and all iPhone Apps it doesn't like and the Amazon Kindle censorship case - trying to argue, obviously, that if all software was shipped as free software as a matter of course, that kind of behaviour would not be as big a problem as users and organizations would be able to change it.
Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
br Carsten Agger Denmark
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
This may be at a different level from what you have in mind, and relates more to the standards issue you would prefer to deal with later; but the issues are inextricably linked: access to data/ information/ knowledge in free/open standard formats via free/open protocols with software libre, ... saving lives and enabling a2k and innovation in communities towards self-determination, self-empowerment, etc.
Thanks for your suggestions and for all the other links, stories and suggestions! You certainly got me started beyond the WGA/iPhone/Kindle apéritifs.
The point about lack of interoparibility (and transparency, and code access) potentially costing lives is especially important, I believe. The SAP angle (and the haptics one) are also real eyeopeners. So thanks again.
br Carsten
Carsten Agger wrote:
Thanks for your suggestions and for all the other links...
This might be of interest...from Slashdot:
"Dutch Gov't Has No Idea How To Delete Tapped Calls
<snip>The Dutch police are now trying to get their Israeli supplier Verint to tell them how to delete tapped calls and comply with the law. Meanwhile, attorneys in the Netherlands remain afraid to use their phones."
Vox
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/09/10/23/0244245/Dutch-Govt-Has-No-Idea-How-To...
Carsten Agger schrieb:
I'm doing a text about the potential damages of proprietary software... ... Does anyone know of more striking cases, possibly a list, of people who have been badly bitten by proprietary software. (There's the standards issue, of course, but that deserves to be treated apart).
I'm not sure if the following cases apply or has more to do with standards:
1) Filemaker Filemaker is a not inexpensive easy-to-use database complete with graphical interface and scripting, rather like Access. The format changes every few years and is downwards incompatible - and of course incompatible to any other programs. Although data can be exported in other formats, the structure of the database can't. The problem is now that Filemaker needs Windows or MacOS to run. Older Versions work fine with Wine, but newer ones don't. The trap is thus if you have a Linux system and use Filemaker with Wine, an update probably won't work any more. Thus you are forced to run an "island-system" or use virtual machines (including licences).
2) Adobe Indesign Indesign is an expensive but popular layout/publishing program. The trap is that you can't use the files well with other programs. The SVG export is useless and the PDF export is very good.
Both cases aren't so bad if used by professional offices, but often they are installed on school computers and the pupils then either lose their work later or are forced to buy the programs (many steal them instead).
Theo Schmidt
Sorry for the late reply, I was offline.
I read all replies, and I think this is an interesting case. I heard about it some time ago about robopark (the web site looks like an ode to intellectual property more than anything else).
Quoting http://www.calccit.org/itsdecision/serv_and_tech/Parking_Systems_Technologie...
In August 2006 the robotic parking garage encountered a problem. It [...] a contractual disagreement between Robotic Parking (the owners of the software running the garage) and the City of New Jersey who own and operate the garage but refused to pay what they saw as an exorbitant rise in software licence and maintenance fees [...].
The City was not allowed to operate the garage without a software license and the result was a court case which lasted two weeks and trapped residents cars in the parking garage over that period since there was no manual way to remove vehicles.
/alessandro
* Alessandro Rubini rubini@gnudd.com [2009-10-17 14:29:17 +0200]:
I read all replies, and I think this is an interesting case. I heard about it some time ago about robopark (the web site looks like an ode to intellectual property more than anything else).
Quoting http://www.calccit.org/itsdecision/serv_and_tech/Parking_Systems_Technologie...
By the way. The quote is no longer on the URL above. Yet it is still available on http://web.archive.org/web/20080516120820/http://www.calccit.org/itsdecision...
In August 2006 the robotic parking garage encountered a problem. It [...] a contractual disagreement between Robotic Parking (the owners of the software running the garage) and the City of New Jersey who own and operate the garage but refused to pay what they saw as an exorbitant rise in software licence and maintenance fees [...]. The City was not allowed to operate the garage without a software license and the result was a court case which lasted two weeks and trapped residents cars in the parking garage over that period since there was no manual way to remove vehicles.
Best wishes, Matthias