Hi all
I was considering switching to use GNU Emacs for editing, I have heard good things about it.
There appears to be a printed manual available from the GNU's web page.
Only $20, roughly £10 (I'm British).
Not bad for a tenner, apart from one HUGE problem.
Shipping. To get it shipped outside of the U.S. you have to authorize the FSF to add any amount they chose for shipping, without telling you what is. Surely I can't be the only one who thinks this is highly suspicious? In fact I am suspecting that it may even be illegal under the jurisdiction I reside in.
In fact reading from government legislation:
Information required prior to the conclusion of the contract 7. - (1) Subject to paragraph (4), in good time prior to the conclusion of the contract the supplier shall - (a) provide to the consumer the following information - (iii) the price of the goods or services including all taxes; (iv) delivery costs where appropriate;
From: The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
Usefully there is no mention of jurisdiction that I can see. Either way I find it extremely risky to give consent for an unknown fee. In fact it is the kind of thing I would have expected to see from con artists, however the security certificate confirms it is the FSF.
As the FSFEurope is a "sister" organisation to the FSF I thought they might sell the item I was after, they don't. And worse the things they do sell they sell via email. Did email magically become more secure while I was sleeping?
No wonder businesses don't take free software seriously when it is promoted by organisations who can't even setup a proper online store.
Once again the Gnu decide the non-Americans are not worthy of using free software.
Also do the Gnu get more or less money from directly selling manuals than if I bought it from another vendor (such as Amazon)?
Thanks
Not bad for a tenner, apart from one HUGE problem.
I once faced this problem too in Asia - not knowing the shipping cost. In the end, I just chose to print out the manuals myself and donated money to the FSF. You can find all the manuals at the below URL:
Regards Koh Choon Lin
Andy stude.list@googlemail.com wrote: [...]
Shipping. To get it shipped outside of the U.S. you have to authorize the FSF to add any amount they chose for shipping, without telling you what is. Surely I can't be the only one who thinks this is highly suspicious? In fact I am suspecting that it may even be illegal under the jurisdiction I reside in. [...]
Not suspicious, but I share your concerns about it. (If the manuals were free software, I might care more.)
Nick Hill nick@nickhill.co.uk used to have GNU manuals for sale in the UK. Other than that, http://www.network-theory.co.uk/ publish some and maybe can tell you where to buy more.
As the FSFEurope is a "sister" organisation to the FSF I thought they might sell the item I was after, they don't. And worse the things they do sell they sell via email. Did email magically become more secure while I was sleeping?
Maybe. Did you sleep through GnuPG's creation? ;-)
No wonder businesses don't take free software seriously when it is promoted by organisations who can't even setup a proper online store.
Bah, they take proprietary software seriously and that is also promoted by organisations who can't even setup a proper online store. I know - I get called in to replace them with more secure ones!
Once again the Gnu decide the non-Americans are not worthy of using free software.
No, it's just that the FSF doesn't serve Europe well in this case.
Also do the Gnu get more or less money from directly selling manuals than if I bought it from another vendor (such as Amazon)?
I don't know, but Amazon is a particularly bad place to buy: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/amazon.html
Although FSF has ended its boycott in 2002, Amazon continued software-patenting in Europe into 2003... and beyond? http://eupat.ffii.org/news/03/amaz0818/ http://eupat.ffii.org/patents/effects/1click/index.en.html
Hope that helps,
(If the manuals were free software, I might care more.)
Since manuals aren't software to begin with, there is nothing free or non-free about them in the software sense. They are simply free manuals.
Andy wrote:
As the FSFEurope is a "sister" organisation to the FSF I thought they might sell the item I was after, they don't.
You're right, and it's not the first time it's been suggested that we do. We might still do it, but finding a reliable printer and getting the volume necessary for it to be useful is quite a large undertaking (with Print-on-Demand, this might not be an issue any more, we're currently investigating, but we don't currently put a huge amount of effort into it. If you want to help, we'd appreciate the assistance).
And worse the things they do sell they sell via email. Did email magically become more secure while I was sleeping?
You're not sending money by email. We usually accept money transfers or payments with Paypal. How you pay is something you work out with our office when you mail them, and it depends on where you are and what would be most convenient and useful.
Also do the Gnu get more or less money from directly selling manuals than if I bought it from another vendor (such as Amazon)?
Yes, almost certainly. In my experience, when you buy a book from another vendor, the author (or the FSF in this case), usually gets about 1/2 of the profit that they get if you would buy it directly from the source.
Hi Andy,
Andy stude.list@googlemail.com writes:
Shipping. To get it shipped outside of the U.S. you have to authorize the FSF to add any amount they chose for shipping, without telling you what is. Surely I can't be the only one who thinks this is highly suspicious? In fact I am suspecting that it may even be illegal under the jurisdiction I reside in.
You can always write to order@fsf.org to ask us about shipping.
You don't have to blanketly authorize costs -- there is also an option on the order form that says you should be contacted to verify that shipping costs are OK before the charge is put through. Sounds like that's the option you want.
I think we can ship the Emacs manual global priority, which is around $9. But you can verify that with the ordering people.
In fact reading from government legislation:
Information required prior to the conclusion of the contract 7. - (1) Subject to paragraph (4), in good time prior to the conclusion of the contract the supplier shall - (a) provide to the consumer the following information - (iii) the price of the goods or services including all taxes; (iv) delivery costs where appropriate;
From: The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm
Usefully there is no mention of jurisdiction that I can see. Either way I find it extremely risky to give consent for an unknown fee. In fact it is the kind of thing I would have expected to see from con artists, however the security certificate confirms it is the FSF.
See above -- we are certainly not asking you to consent to an unknown fee. We'll happily confirm the cost with you first.
Also do the Gnu get more or less money from directly selling manuals than if I bought it from another vendor (such as Amazon)?
GNU gets much, much less if you buy from Amazon.