This bit of news has been getting around:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/bank-run-fears-continue-hsbc-restri...
I don't think it is about a bank run, more likely it is about trying to get everybody using electronic means of payment to feed more information back to big data.
I was really shocked on my last visit to a student bar in London, all the 18 year olds paying for each beer with their card. It seems that younger people are growing into these habits without even thinking about it but the bank in question couldn't wait for older generations to die off and wants to force them into using plastic as well.
ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted 200 of the last 1 recessions.
The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite scaremongering from foolish people.
On 25 January 2014 20:04, Daniel Pocock daniel@pocock.com.au wrote:
This bit of news has been getting around:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/bank-run-fears-continue-hsbc-restri...
I don't think it is about a bank run, more likely it is about trying to get everybody using electronic means of payment to feed more information back to big data.
I was really shocked on my last visit to a student bar in London, all the 18 year olds paying for each beer with their card. It seems that younger people are growing into these habits without even thinking about it but the bank in question couldn't wait for older generations to die off and wants to force them into using plastic as well.
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
On 25/01/14 21:13, David Gerard wrote:
ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted 200 of the last 1 recessions.
Hence my opening comment that it is not really about a bank run, despite the hype
The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite scaremongering from foolish people.
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 23:09 +0100, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 25/01/14 21:13, David Gerard wrote:
ZeroHedge is the NaturalNews of economic blogging. They have predicted 200 of the last 1 recessions.
Hence my opening comment that it is not really about a bank run, despite the hype
The HSBC cash restriction is about pressure from the government after HSBC was busted blatantly money-laundering for drug cartels. The restriction does not apply to non-cash transactions. Despite scaremongering from foolish people.
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
It is more complex and at the same time, I believe, simpler, than that.
Cash is inconvenient for banks, it is hard/expensive to move around, can be easily stolen, and requires costly procedures to handle.
In contrast numbers on a computer can be easily double checked, cannot be stolen from a branch office as easily and can be transferred easily between banks and customers.
So, although, I do not deny there are those that really like the idea of tracking people, I think it is mostly due to cost-cutting.
You can certainly use prepaid, anonymous, credit cards, and the banks would be as happy.
Simo.
Hello,
* Simo s@ssimo.org [2014-01-26T16:47+0100]:
Cash is inconvenient for banks, it is hard/expensive to move around, can be easily stolen, and requires costly procedures to handle.
Additionally it is way easier for the government to tax electronic transactions. (And as we can see, banks + gov is quite an alliance...)
mfg Thomas Jensch
Hi,
Additionally it is way easier for the government to tax electronic transactions. (And as we can see, banks + gov is quite an alliance...)
Sorry, Thomas, but I'm not with you there. Using cash instead of payment cards is, just like free software, about freedom and privacy, not about avoiding taxes. As far as I'm concerned everyone should pay their due taxes, if we wish continue receiving public services. You may disagree with me but that's a completely different discussion.
* Daniel Pocock:
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?
On 28/01/14 21:37, Florian Weimer wrote:
- Daniel Pocock:
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?
How much of the software used for those electronic currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
On 28/01/14 21:52, Florian Weimer wrote:
- Daniel Pocock:
How much of the software used for those electronic currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
It's generally owned and developed by the users, so it's free software according to most definitions.
That depends on how your definition of user
If the user is an average consumer or business, the User Interface consists of an ATM, e-banking, credit card and the occasional paper statement. There is not a lot of source code to be seen.
If you define user as the financial institution then it is a different story.
On 28.01.2014 21:39, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 28/01/14 21:37, Florian Weimer wrote:
- Daniel Pocock:
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?
How much of the software used for those electronic currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Most ATMs run with nonfree software (mostly Windows XP), but this does not seem to be a problem for Richard Stallman: "Likewise, I don't need to worry about what software is in a kiosk, pay phone, or ATM that I am using. I hope their owners migrate them to free software, for their sake, but there's no need for me to refuse to touch them until then."
There is also a really old programming language called COBOL http://jxself.org/cobol.shtml. As most COBOL software is never distributed, developing COBOL programs seems to be compatible with the free software movement.
Tobias Platen
On 28/01/14 22:03, Tobias Platen wrote:
On 28.01.2014 21:39, Daniel Pocock wrote:
On 28/01/14 21:37, Florian Weimer wrote:
- Daniel Pocock:
That, too, is what I commented - getting more people to pay by electronic means (making cash/anonymity appear shameful) seems to be the objective
Cash is already heavily regulated, at least in countries with a stable economy.
What has this to do with free software, by the way?
How much of the software used for those electronic currency/banking/payment transactions is free?
Discussion mailing list Discussion@fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Most ATMs run with nonfree software (mostly Windows XP), but this does not seem to be a problem for Richard Stallman: "Likewise, I don't need to worry about what software is in a kiosk, pay phone, or ATM that I am using. I hope their owners migrate them to free software, for their sake, but there's no need for me to refuse to touch them until then."
There is also a really old programming language called COBOL http://jxself.org/cobol.shtml. As most COBOL software is never distributed, developing COBOL programs seems to be compatible with the free software movement.
Actually, my job at Barlcays Capital was rolling out the Ganglia system across the whole enterprise. Banks do use free software, usually in those cases where it is really compelling to do so (Linux, Git, Jenkins are other common examples, although Firefox has some way to go to displace IE6 in some bigger corporates)
On the other hand, the issue with electronic payment is very different. From the perspective of the user of the currency, they have little or no control over just what happens to their data.
Just as Facebook reveals who your friends are, your financial transactions reveal a lot about your economic preferences (e.g. where you eat, whether you go to the pub every night/every weekend).
People concerned about these wider technology issues would see the move away from cash as something similar to banning ToR and forcing everybody to browse the web while logged into Google.