Just for context, in my case what held me back was the rest of my family who also used the computer.

I was using cygwin and colinux for around a year first.

My children have had to do without shockwave and are using non-free flash for cbeebies; nickelodean etc.

I continue to berate BBC and other media providers periodically.

I could make them do without cbeebies and such, but I rate my family relations higher than that.

Others may have similar conflicting priorities.

I'd rather bring my family with me slowly than have everybody in my tiny divorced bachelors flat converted quickly.

Sam -----Original Message----- From: MJ Ray mjr@phonecoop.coop Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:41 AM To: discussion@fsfeurope.org Subject: Re: firefox, iceweasel, burningdog, icecat, ...

"P.B." pb@fsfe.org wrote: [...]

So what to do? If you setup a computer today without nonfree-flash, that's like the first call you're gonna get: "bohoooo... youtube... bohooo.... myspace.... bohooo... lunax sucks. nothing works"

Before nonfree-flash, it was java; before java, it was acroread; before acroread, it was navigator; before navigator, I don't know, but I expect there was something.

I think this argument has even less weight today than ever before.

nonfree-flash mainly continues to be such a problem because of bad webmasters (usually under strong instruction from site owners) failing to use the type attribute correctly and/or using javascripts that only recognise the Adobe plugin.

Well, that, and that we can't persuade firefox to help fix free flash by always offering it as a preferred alternative to nonfree-flash.

[...]

almost impossible to avoid them thinking "oh. it's because of this Lunax where things are painfully difficult and you can't do normal stuff on"

I usually tell them "OK, this isn't really easy because that's a bad Windows(or whatever)-specific website" and that seems to work.

Regards,