I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
Padraig
Hi Padraig,
# Decarraig [2017-07-17 20:51 +0200]:
I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
No, to my knowledge, we don't have a policy on that. But if we had, it would probably be "The more ethical, the better".
We are experts when it comes to ethical software, but I doubt we have enough expertise to evaluate the many granular issues of certain minerals and the often dubious circumstances in which they are produced – not to speak of the labour conditions in which mobile phones are manufactured. This is a field large and complicated enough for dozens of NGOs.
However, many of us appreciate initiatives like Fairphone, and we will continue to help them to improve the freedom of their software (and users).
Best, Max
I wanted to mention that, when it comes to figuring out what phone has the least environmental / social injustice impact, it is sometimes better to buy used and refurbished devices than it is to buy Fairphone type devices.
New phones that use recycled and ethically sourced materials are great!
Preventing a phone from needing to be recycled because it has a well maintained LineageOS or Replicant ROM is also great and potentially greater!
Free software helps our society move away from the planned obsolescence strategy of proprietary software companies.
I use a Samsung Galaxy S3 phone that I refurbished, as a member of Technoethical.com. It now sports a ROM from https://replicant.us that has regular security and other updates to it. I'm looking to switch to a Technoethical Note 2 soon.
Cordially, kurtis
Max Mehl:
Hi Padraig,
# Decarraig [2017-07-17 20:51 +0200]:
I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
No, to my knowledge, we don't have a policy on that. But if we had, it would probably be "The more ethical, the better". We are experts when it comes to ethical software, but I doubt we have enough expertise to evaluate the many granular issues of certain minerals and the often dubious circumstances in which they are produced – not to speak of the labour conditions in which mobile phones are manufactured. This is a field large and complicated enough for dozens of NGOs.
However, many of us appreciate initiatives like Fairphone, and we will continue to help them to improve the freedom of their software (and users).
Best, Max
Hi Kurtis, Technoethical sounds interesting but if the original device was not ethical (I don't know about Samsungs record) the refurbished device would hardly be ethical either ? I am thinking of the device rather than the software / OS
Sent from my iPad
On 18 Jul 2017, at 21:55, Kurtis Hanna kurtis@riseup.net wrote:
I wanted to mention that, when it comes to figuring out what phone has the least environmental / social injustice impact, it is sometimes better to buy used and refurbished devices than it is to buy Fairphone type devices.
New phones that use recycled and ethically sourced materials are great!
Preventing a phone from needing to be recycled because it has a well maintained LineageOS or Replicant ROM is also great and potentially greater!
Free software helps our society move away from the planned obsolescence strategy of proprietary software companies.
I use a Samsung Galaxy S3 phone that I refurbished, as a member of Technoethical.com. It now sports a ROM from https://replicant.us that has regular security and other updates to it. I'm looking to switch to a Technoethical Note 2 soon.
Cordially, kurtis
Max Mehl:
Hi Padraig,
# Decarraig [2017-07-17 20:51 +0200]:
I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
No, to my knowledge, we don't have a policy on that. But if we had, it would probably be "The more ethical, the better". We are experts when it comes to ethical software, but I doubt we have enough expertise to evaluate the many granular issues of certain minerals and the often dubious circumstances in which they are produced – not to speak of the labour conditions in which mobile phones are manufactured. This is a field large and complicated enough for dozens of NGOs.
However, many of us appreciate initiatives like Fairphone, and we will continue to help them to improve the freedom of their software (and users).
Best, Max
Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
What I'm saying is that, IMHO, buying/using a device that likely would have ended up in the trash or recycled for parts is more ethical than buying a newly manufactured phone every 18 months, even if it is made with mostly recycled or ethically sourced material.
Reduce / Reuse / Recycle
Decarraig:
Hi Kurtis, Technoethical sounds interesting but if the original device was not ethical (I don't know about Samsungs record) the refurbished device would hardly be ethical either ? I am thinking of the device rather than the software / OS
Sent from my iPad
On 18 Jul 2017, at 21:55, Kurtis Hanna kurtis@riseup.net wrote:
I wanted to mention that, when it comes to figuring out what phone has the least environmental / social injustice impact, it is sometimes better to buy used and refurbished devices than it is to buy Fairphone type devices.
New phones that use recycled and ethically sourced materials are great!
Preventing a phone from needing to be recycled because it has a well maintained LineageOS or Replicant ROM is also great and potentially greater!
Free software helps our society move away from the planned obsolescence strategy of proprietary software companies.
I use a Samsung Galaxy S3 phone that I refurbished, as a member of Technoethical.com. It now sports a ROM from https://replicant.us that has regular security and other updates to it. I'm looking to switch to a Technoethical Note 2 soon.
Cordially, kurtis
Max Mehl:
Hi Padraig,
# Decarraig [2017-07-17 20:51 +0200]:
I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
No, to my knowledge, we don't have a policy on that. But if we had, it would probably be "The more ethical, the better". We are experts when it comes to ethical software, but I doubt we have enough expertise to evaluate the many granular issues of certain minerals and the often dubious circumstances in which they are produced – not to speak of the labour conditions in which mobile phones are manufactured. This is a field large and complicated enough for dozens of NGOs.
However, many of us appreciate initiatives like Fairphone, and we will continue to help them to improve the freedom of their software (and users).
Best, Max
_______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
_______________________________________________ Discussion mailing list Discussion@lists.fsfe.org https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/discussion
Am 19. Juli 2017 00:23:00 MESZ schrieb Kurtis Hanna kurtis@riseup.net:
What I'm saying is that, IMHO, buying/using a device that likely would have ended up in the trash or recycled for parts is more ethical than buying a newly manufactured phone every 18 months, even if it is made with mostly recycled or ethically sourced material.
Reduce / Reuse / Recycle
I think that's a very good point to keep in mind. Free software has quite some overlap with upcycling or fixityourself movement (think about RMS and some laser printer). For example, without free software millions of 'IOT' devices will turn into zombies producing a horrible amount of waste. Without free software BIOS you cannot replace many parts of notebooks etc.
Best wishes Michael Hi Kurtis,
Hi,
I guess you both have a point: Reusing a device is more ethical than throwing a working phone in the trash. Buying a device that tries hard not to exploit workers in low-wage countries is more ethical than supporting a manufacturer that optimizes solely for its own profit.
Ethics is very much about reasoning about ambiguous problems. Therefore "more ethical" is rarely applicable to a set of choices.
On Dienstag, 18. Juli 2017 22:23:00 CEST Kurtis Hanna wrote:
Sent from my iPad
Is that irony I'm sensing?
Cheers, Johannes
On 19 Jul 2017, at 21:10, Johannes Zarl-Zierl jzarl@fsfe.org wrote:
Hi,
I guess you both have a point: Reusing a device is more ethical than throwing a working phone in the trash. Buying a device that tries hard not to exploit workers in low-wage countries is more ethical than supporting a manufacturer that optimizes solely for its own profit.
Ethics is very much about reasoning about ambiguous problems.
Fair point
On Dienstag, 18. Juli 2017 22:23:00 CEST Kurtis Hanna wrote:
Sent from my iPad
Is that irony I'm sensing?
Oops !
Regards Padraig
I know only the following references (from FSF, but can also apply for FSFE I think):
- [[https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom]].
- [[https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-non-gnu-distros.html]].
On 17/07/17 20:51, Decarraig wrote:
I have been following various discussions on android@lists.fsfe.org and I am wondering if FSFE has any policy on ethical issues with mobile phones e.g. Conflict mining, cobalt mining etc ?
When we start to see ethical cigarettes and honest politicians, you will know ethical phones are not far away