From: Bernhard Reiter bernhard@intevation.de
I don't want to comment the first statements in this mail. There is enough public information to proove these statements for correctness....
If there is widespread distrust of BerliOS, and this is a problem, how about getting an FAQ written of peoples' reasons for distrust and FUD, followed by the responses?=20
This will probably be the next step as soon as somebody has time to do it. Of course as usual within free software development we noticed them directly first and confidentially pointed out the problems.
It seems that your notice was so confifential that nobody apart some of your friends got it.....
BerliOS did not respond and remedied them:
... otherwise we would have responded.
- the GMD's general way of working is: get government money,
create a product or special knowledge, make a spin-off to proprietorily cash on it. Where is the statement of the BerliOS people that they=20 know about this and plan to do differently?
I should comment this one because it is hard to check it for correctness without the right pointers.
GMD is doing basic research and applied research. 60% of the research found is from German ministry of science. 40% is from industrial partners and from Eropean research projects.
If there is a number of people inside GMD who have a good idea, then GMD helps them to found a new company. This typically results in a loss of money from GMD and a win for the new company. The reason for doing this is to support to found new high tech companies in Germany and thus to support the future of Germany.
The support works the following way: the people from the new company keep their office in GMD for 2 years and may use the phone, the internet and computer infrastructure for free while working 50% of the time for GMD projects and 50% of the time for their own projects. Then there is another 2 years phase during this phase the poeple may suspend their job with GMD. If the new company is successful, they stay inside the new company. If the new company is unsuccessful, then they return to GMD.
What is wrong with this strategy to support new companies?
On a short term base, it takes money from the government. On a long term base these new companies grant tax income for the government and support the German community.
Jörg
EMail:joerg@schily.isdn.cs.tu-berlin.de (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin js@cs.tu-berlin.de (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 schilling@fokus.gmd.de (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix
On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:43:29PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
From: Bernhard Reiter bernhard@intevation.de
Of course as usual within free software development we noticed them directly first and confidentially pointed out the problems.
It seems that your notice was so confifential that nobody apart some of your friends got it.....
BerliOS did not respond
... otherwise we would have responded.
Exchanged private mail with Jörg and we will probably have a phone conversation about the difficulties in the beginning of next week.
Bernhard
Just had a long (2.25h) and contructive phone conversation with Jörg Schilling and Gregorio of BerliOS.
This can be a start of better relations. A lot of misunderstandings could be elminated. We will continue to listen to each other in other forums.
Bernhard
On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 11:59:00PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
Exchanged private mail with Jörg and we will probably have a phone conversation about the difficulties in the beginning of next week.
On Mon, Jul 30, 2001 at 07:18:13PM +0200, Bernhard Reiter wrote:
Just had a long (2.25h) and contructive phone conversation with Jörg Schilling and Gregorio of BerliOS.
That's very good news. I think resolving your differences will revert in benefit to both sides.
Jaime
unfortunately, this thread has developed in an unhappy way. Nonetheless it might help to find a common base for free software activities in Germany. So I ask all parties not to take the discussion in a personal way (we are all professionals).
Just to add some points from my view:
Jörg is certainly not responsible for all of the GMD doings, structure and plans. So I suggest fighting against the negative GMD aspects, Jörg is not the prime target. He's with the GMD and explained some of their doings. The same holds true for Werner, Bernhard and the FSFE Germany.
Probably I am one of the guys you have talked about. One of those who were said to 'not trust BerliOS'. To my taste this term does not really express my point. My feelings about BerliOS consist of two elements:
1. I am of the free software camp, not the open source one. I am just uncertain about BerliOS who almost entirely avoid the term free software, its meaning and history. This does not downgrade BerliOS, it just follows that I will choose the free software alternative instead of BerliOS.
2. I recently discussed some technical and communication problems of BerliOS and even offered my help (on this list in correspondence with someone of the GMD/BerliOS circle). I got no answer, which might be by chance, but this actually dows downgrade BerliOS. (I asked for the direct contact to discuss critics to BerliOS; there seems to be no apropriate contact information on the BerliOS pages. Free software people don't like anonymity.) On Thu, Jul 26, 2001 at 10:43:29PM +0200, Joerg Schilling wrote:
If there is a number of people inside GMD who have a good idea, then GMD helps them to found a new company. This typically results in a loss of money from GMD and a win for the new company. The reason for doing this is to support to found new high tech companies in Germany and thus to support the future of Germany.
The support works the following way: the people from the new company keep their office in GMD for 2 years and may use the phone, the internet and computer infrastructure for free while working 50% of the time for GMD projects and 50% of the time for their own projects. Then there is another 2 years phase during this phase the poeple may suspend their job with GMD. If the new company is successful, they stay inside the new company. If the new company is unsuccessful, then they return to GMD.
What is wrong with this strategy to support new companies?
On a short term base, it takes money from the government. On a long term base these new companies grant tax income for the government and support the German community.
I am really sorry, I can not resist:
I wish I had the same secure environment when I raised my company eventually competing with GMD spin-offs :-) I paid for both.
Don't mind. Neither Jörg, myself or anyone else on this list can change this situation.
Jan