Hello Karsten and finland@,
A reporter from Ajankohtainen Kakkonen (a Finnish TV program of the style like 60 Minutes) just interviewed me by phone for about one hour regarding our procurement project and the LibreOffice-initiatives in Helsinki, Tampere and Turku.
Afterwards I sent her links pointing to our PRs but then realized that FSFE.org does not mention the new initiative (http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178) anywhere. Also I yeasterday got noticed by the Helsinki city that they've denied my request for information to get a copy of the Gartner calculation model or at least the Helsinki city parameters.
Maybe we should now do a PR that combines these two and publish the city's decision as an attachment? Does anybody have time? I am overworked already as it is, but it would be a shame to not follow up on this opportunity. A new PR about these things would a) make them publicly readable b) make it feel more current, motivating the journalists that the topic is newsworthy.
---------- Edelleenlähetetty viesti ---------- Lähettäjä: Salo Malla Malla.Salo@hel.fi Päiväys: 2. heinäkuuta 2012 13.47 Aihe: Pyyntö Gartner Ireland Ltd:n laskentamallilla ja -menetelmällä tehdyn Open Office vs. MS Office laskelman luovuttamisesta ulkopuolisen tahon käyttöön Vastaanottaja: "otto@fsfe.org" otto@fsfe.org
Hei
Ohessa tiedoksenne rahoitusjohtajan päätös 27.6.2012, 152 § asiassa: Pyyntö Gartner Ireland Ltd:n laskentamallilla ja -menetelmällä tehdyn Open Office vs. MS Office laskelman luovuttamisesta ulkopuolisen tahon käyttöön.
Vahvistaisitteko tämän viestin perilletulon.
Ystävällisin terveisin
Malla Salo
*******************************
Malla Salo
rahoitusjohtajan sihteeri
Helsingin kaupunki
Talous- ja suunnittelukeskus
PL 20, 00099 HELSINGIN KAUPUNKI
Käyntiosoite: Pohjoisesplanadi 11-13
Puh. 310 36051
e-mail: malla.salo@hel.fi
Hi Otto,
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 03:15:06PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Hello Karsten and finland@,
A reporter from Ajankohtainen Kakkonen (a Finnish TV program of the style like 60 Minutes) just interviewed me by phone for about one hour regarding our procurement project and the LibreOffice-initiatives in Helsinki, Tampere and Turku.
Afterwards I sent her links pointing to our PRs but then realized that FSFE.org does not mention the new initiative (http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178) anywhere. Also I yeasterday got noticed by the Helsinki city that they've denied my request for information to get a copy of the Gartner calculation model or at least the Helsinki city parameters.
Maybe we should now do a PR that combines these two and publish the city's decision as an attachment?
yes, we can do this.
Does anybody have time?
I can spend an hour on it this afternoon, and would appreciate any help I can get.
I've opened a public pad at
http://pr.etherpad.fsfe.org/140 Pwd: sumuvuori
Please join me there to help with drafting and translation!
Best regards, Karsten
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 03:15:06PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Hello Karsten and finland@,
A reporter from Ajankohtainen Kakkonen (a Finnish TV program of the style like 60 Minutes) just interviewed me by phone for about one hour regarding our procurement project and the LibreOffice-initiatives in Helsinki, Tampere and Turku.
Afterwards I sent her links pointing to our PRs but then realized that FSFE.org does not mention the new initiative (http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178) anywhere. Also I yeasterday got noticed by the Helsinki city that they've denied my request for information to get a copy of the Gartner calculation model or at least the Helsinki city parameters.
Maybe we should now do a PR that combines these two and publish the city's decision as an attachment?
Right. So the content of our story would be as follows:
- Helsinki city refuses to release information on how it arrived at its mysterious numbers
- summarise Sumuvuori's initiative
- point to our procurement project as the sort of thing that will root out such intransparent practices
Would that work? Anything missing? Anything we should emphasise differently?
Best regards, Karsten
Hello,
2012/7/3 Karsten Gerloff gerloff@fsfeurope.org:
Right. So the content of our story would be as follows:
Helsinki city refuses to release information on how it arrived at its mysterious numbers
summarise Sumuvuori's initiative
point to our procurement project as the sort of thing that will root out such intransparent practices
Would that work? Anything missing? Anything we should emphasise differently?
Let's continue the discussion in the pad window.
I'd leave the procurement project out of this and empasize on that a) Helsinki calculation suspicius, nobody else should dismiss LIbreOffice based on Helsinki's intrepretation b) the fight is not over, a new initiative requires that LIbreOffice at least installed as secondary office suite to decrease MS dependency over time
http://pr.etherpad.fsfe.org/140 Pwd: sumuvuori
Hi,
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 03:54:31PM +0300, Otto Kekäläinen wrote:
Hello,
2012/7/3 Karsten Gerloff gerloff@fsfeurope.org:
Right. So the content of our story would be as follows:
please find the first draft below.
Please review (you're quoted!), and have a stab at the FIXMEs. The title could be snappier too, I'm grateful for ideas.
I've pasted the whole thing on the pad, too. Pick either the file or the pad for modifications -- just tell me which it is to be.
I'd leave the procurement project out of this
no, I strongly believe we should include it. It's an important project, and will benefit from any exposure we can give it. Also, since both this PR and the project deal with procurement in the Finnish public sector, anyone except the recipients of this mail would need a microscope to tell the two apart.
If there are any risks in mentioning the two together, please tell me.
and empasize on that a) Helsinki calculation suspicius, nobody else should dismiss LIbreOffice based on Helsinki's intrepretation
Got that.
b) the fight is not over, a new initiative requires that LIbreOffice at least installed as secondary office suite to decrease MS dependency over time
Hmmmm... Sumuvuori's new initiative is mentioned. But perhaps we can add a second quote.
Best regards, Karsten
===
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" ?>
<html newsdate="2012-07-05"> <head> <title>City of Helsinki refuses FSFE's Freedom of Information request</title> </head> <body> <h1>City of Helsinki refuses FSFE's Freedom of Information request</h1>
<p newsteaser="yes" id="introduction"> In a row over its approach to buying software, the city of Helsinki has refused to release information about how it calculated the cost of deploying Free Software on its systems. On [FIXME: date], FSFE filed a Freedom of Information request, asking the city how it had arrived at a surprisingly high cost estimates for running LibreOffice on the city's workstations. The city of Helsinki has now denied this request. </p>
<p> "If anyone was looking to Helsinki for a pragmatic assessment of the costs and benefits of Free Software, this should give them pause," says Otto Kekäläinen, FSFE's Finland coordinator. "If Helsinki won't explain how they came by their figures, how can anyone take those numbers seriously?" </p>
<p> Johanna Sumuvuori, member of Helsinki's city council, has been pushing for greater use of Free Software in the city's administration since 2010. Together with more than 50 other members of Helsinki's city council [FIXME: are those signatories actually city council members?], she is now <a href="http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178">urging the city council</a> to at least provide users with up-to-date LibreOffice installs in parallel with the riproprietary office suite currently in use. </p>
<p> During 2011, the city of Helsinki ran a pilot project, trying out the Free Software suite on the laptops of 600 city council members. A report released in December 2011 claimed that rolling out OpenOffice (now LibreOffice) across the administration would cause significantly higher costs than the proprietary alternative. <a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120412-02.en.html">FSFE's analysis points to a number of severe deficiencies</a> in both the pilot project and the report. Even though the city's claims appear unrealistic, Helsinki's administration refuses to explain how the figures were calculated. </p>
<p> FSFE is running a <a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120619-01.en.html">project to improve public sector procurement practices</a> in Finland. Public sector bodies frequently make mistakes in their calls for tender that leave Free Software companies at a disadvantage. FSFE works with public bodies to fix mistakes in calls for tender, and to spread best practices. </p> </body> <tags> <tag>front-page</tag> <tag>fi</tag> <tag>procurement</tag> </tags> </html>
Hello,
2012/7/3 Karsten Gerloff gerloff@fsfeurope.org:
please find the first draft below.
I've opened the version in etherpad and I'll review it.
Here is the link in case Timos or Martin had time to check it out too. http://pr.etherpad.fsfe.org/140 Pwd: sumuvuori
I'd leave the procurement project out of this
no, I strongly believe we should include it. It's an important
Ok, let's include it.
Here is the Tampere answer: http://ktweb.tampere.fi/ktwebbin/ktproxy2.dll?doctype=2&docid=4b485c305c... (.doc in Finnish, don't have time to translate)
The core message is that they are installing Firefox alonside IE on all city computers and that they will investigate installing OpenOffice alonside MS Office, but they expect interoperability issues as the Helsinki city report about their pilot showed.
I'm not sure what to think about this. Maybe I'll try to contact them and offer my services to resolve any interoperability issues so that they can't cause them by mistake, but they can always decline any help and introduce interoperability issues by purpose, as they did in Helsinki (they made users belive that OpenOffice 3.1 cannot open .docx and xlsx etc).
Hi Otto, all
can you please let me know whether the current text is ok? I'll need to send it to the translators within an hour or so.
(Our Etherpad servers are currently down, but should be back up within a few minutes.)
I've asked Sumuvuori for a quote, but haven't had an answer yet. So we'll probably have to do without her.
Best regards, Karsten
On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:52:37AM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
Hi Otto, all
can you please let me know whether the current text is ok? I'll need to send it to the translators within an hour or so.
(Our Etherpad servers are currently down, but should be back up within a few minutes.)
Those few minutes are looking rather long.
Below is the version that I sent to Sumuvuori. Unless anyone else edited it after Wednesday afternoon, it should still be current.
If one of you can come up with a better title, I'll buy you a beer when I come to Helsinki in September for the OKfestival :)
Best regards, Karsten
====
City of Helsinki Wants To Keep Software Costs Secret
In a row over its approach to buying software, the city of Helsinki has refused to release information about how it calculated a cost estimate for deploying Free Software on its systems. On 10th of April 2012, FSFE filed a Freedom of Information request, asking the city how it had arrived at a surprisingly high cost estimates for running OpenOffice (now LibreOffice) on the city's workstations. The city of Helsinki has now denied this request.
"If anyone was looking to Helsinki for a pragmatic assessment of the costs and benefits of Free Software, this should make them reconsider," says Otto Kekäläinen, FSFE's Finland coordinator. The city's administration insists that its calculations are based on a secret formula provided by a consultancy.
Even if one were to accept that business secrets should be more important than the interests of Helsinki's citizens, the city could and should still release the numbers that it put into the formula. This could be such information as the estimated cost per seat, or estimated annual costs for support. "If Helsinki won't explain how they came by their figures, how can anyone take those numbers seriously?" asks Kekäläinen.
Johanna Sumuvuori, member of Helsinki's city council, has been pushing for greater use of Free Software in the city's administration since 2010. Together with 50 out of 85 members of Helsinki's city council, she is now <a href="http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178">urging the city council</a> to at least provide users with up-to-date LibreOffice installs in parallel with the riproprietary office suite currently in use.
[FIXME: Quote Johanna Sumuvuori]
During 2011, the city of Helsinki ran a pilot project, trying out the Free Software suite as a secondary office suite on all 21 000 city workstations and on as the sole office suite on 600 laptops provided to city officials. After the pilot ended in December 2011, a report by the city claimed that the cost of using OpenOffice/LibreOffice would cost 70% more than the current proprietary office suite.
<a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120412-02.en.html">FSFE's analysis points to a number of severe deficiencies</a> in both the pilot project and the report. Even though the city's claims appear unrealistic, Helsinki's administration refuses to explain how the figures were calculated.
FSFE is running a <a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120619-01.en.html">project to improve public sector procurement practices</a> in Finland. Public sector bodies frequently make mistakes in their calls for tender by requesting tenders for specific brands and product names, thus discriminating competitors. FSFE works with public bodies to fix mistakes in calls for tender, and to spread best practices on how to increase true competition and thus better quality for a more competitive price.
I made some edits after that. I don't recall all, but here's a few: - I don’t like the "OpenOffice (now LibreOffice)" formulation in the 1st para, it's not exact - Under Sumuvuori's new initiative, the "urging the city council" should be replaced with "urging the city" - Under Sumuvuori's new initiative, "riproprietary" should be replaced with "proprietary"
Best, Martin
-----Alkuperäinen viesti----- Lähettäjä: Karsten Gerloff [mailto:gerloff@fsfeurope.org] Lähetetty: 6. heinäkuuta 2012 12:17 Vastaanottaja: Otto Kekäläinen Kopio: finland@fsfe.org; willebra@fsfe.org Aihe: For review: Monday's PR [was: Re: Fwd: Pyyntö Gartner Ireland Ltd:n laskentamallilla...]
On Fri, Jul 06, 2012 at 10:52:37AM +0200, Karsten Gerloff wrote:
Hi Otto, all
can you please let me know whether the current text is ok? I'll need to send it to the translators within an hour or so.
(Our Etherpad servers are currently down, but should be back up within a few minutes.)
Those few minutes are looking rather long.
Below is the version that I sent to Sumuvuori. Unless anyone else edited it after Wednesday afternoon, it should still be current.
If one of you can come up with a better title, I'll buy you a beer when I come to Helsinki in September for the OKfestival :)
Best regards, Karsten
====
City of Helsinki Wants To Keep Software Costs Secret
In a row over its approach to buying software, the city of Helsinki has refused to release information about how it calculated a cost estimate for deploying Free Software on its systems. On 10th of April 2012, FSFE filed a Freedom of Information request, asking the city how it had arrived at a surprisingly high cost estimates for running OpenOffice (now LibreOffice) on the city's workstations. The city of Helsinki has now denied this request.
"If anyone was looking to Helsinki for a pragmatic assessment of the costs and benefits of Free Software, this should make them reconsider," says Otto Kekäläinen, FSFE's Finland coordinator. The city's administration insists that its calculations are based on a secret formula provided by a consultancy.
Even if one were to accept that business secrets should be more important than the interests of Helsinki's citizens, the city could and should still release the numbers that it put into the formula. This could be such information as the estimated cost per seat, or estimated annual costs for support. "If Helsinki won't explain how they came by their figures, how can anyone take those numbers seriously?" asks Kekäläinen.
Johanna Sumuvuori, member of Helsinki's city council, has been pushing for greater use of Free Software in the city's administration since 2010. Together with 50 out of 85 members of Helsinki's city council, she is now <a href="http://www.sumuvuori.net/node/178">urging the city council</a> to at least provide users with up-to-date LibreOffice installs in parallel with the riproprietary office suite currently in use.
[FIXME: Quote Johanna Sumuvuori]
During 2011, the city of Helsinki ran a pilot project, trying out the Free Software suite as a secondary office suite on all 21 000 city workstations and on as the sole office suite on 600 laptops provided to city officials. After the pilot ended in December 2011, a report by the city claimed that the cost of using OpenOffice/LibreOffice would cost 70% more than the current proprietary office suite.
<a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120412-02.en.html">FSFE's analysis points to a number of severe deficiencies</a> in both the pilot project and the report. Even though the city's claims appear unrealistic, Helsinki's administration refuses to explain how the figures were calculated.
FSFE is running a <a href="http://fsfe.org/news/2012/news-20120619-01.en.html">project to improve public sector procurement practices</a> in Finland. Public sector bodies frequently make mistakes in their calls for tender by requesting tenders for specific brands and product names, thus discriminating competitors. FSFE works with public bodies to fix mistakes in calls for tender, and to spread best practices on how to increase true competition and thus better quality for a more competitive price.
-- Karsten Gerloff [ ] gerloff@fsfeurope.org Free Software Foundation Europe [ ][ ][ ] [http://fsfe.org] President | | +49 176 9690 4298 Your donation powers our work! [http://fsfe.org/donate/]
Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. is a German Verein registered at the Registergericht Hamburg (VR 17030).
-- Karsten Gerloff [ ] gerloff@fsfeurope.org Free Software Foundation Europe [ ][ ][ ] [http://fsfe.org] President | | +49 176 9690 4298 Your donation powers our work! [http://fsfe.org/donate/]
Free Software Foundation Europe e.V. is a German Verein registered at the Registergericht Hamburg (VR 17030).