(adding cc finland@)
2012/9/17 Denis Zalewsky denis.zalewsky@gmail.com:
Hi Otto,
I remember you told me that there is a law and possibility to get Windows refund in Finland if I do not want to use it on my PC. Can you give me some directions/hint regarding how to do it?
There are two related issues A) Can you get a refund of the license if you buy a computer with Windows? B) Can you resell the Windows license?
First case A:
Here is a recent article of a MS-guy explaining that a refund should be possible, but it can take a month and some work to do the process: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2011/08/microsoft-windows-oem-lisenssista-korvau...
This of course represents the views and policies of Microsoft and their resellers. I'm not aware of a legal case, where MS or a reseller has denied the refund and a customer would have disputed it.
Personally I'd advice not to buy a MS computer in the first place, there is plenty of availability of preloaded Linux machines and machines with no preloaded OS at all. I have experience buying stuff from Dell.fi, https://www.thinkpenguin.com/, http://www.ggsdata.se/ and http://www.campusdiscount.de/
I think one of the biggest reasons why Linux on desktops has not succeeded is that current Linux desktop users don't support the preinstalled Linux industry, but rather buy cheap Windows-computers from Gigantti etc. With secure boot etc restrictions this might change and give a very compelling incentive to every Linux user to never by a preloaded Windows machine in the future anymore.
Then case B:
Microsoft EULA says you can't resell OEM licenses. The MS guy have even blogged about a recent case in Finland where MS sued a unemployed person for selling old OEM licenses from scrapped computers: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2011/05/etela-savon-karajaoikeus-3-5-201/
However there was an earlier court decision in Finland from 2003 says that MS EULA infringes consumer rights and some restriction parts are not legally valid. More coverage from the MS guy: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2003/05/microsoft-oem-lisenssien-jalleenmyynnist...
Luckily there has been a EU court decision later that confirms EU wide, that resale restrictions in EULA are not valid: http://fin.afterdawn.com/uutiset/artikkeli.cfm/2012/07/05/eu_n_tuomioistuin_... (with link to sources that are in English)
Summary of both: http://www.yrittajat.fi/fi-FI/etela-pohjanmaanyrittajat/soini/uutinen/?group...
Lähettäjä: Otto Kekäläinen [mailto:otto@fsfe.org]
2012/9/17 Denis Zalewsky denis.zalewsky@gmail.com:
Hi Otto,
I remember you told me that there is a law and possibility to get Windows refund in Finland if I do not want to use it on my PC. Can you give me some directions/hint regarding how to do it?
There are two related issues A) Can you get a refund of the license if you buy a computer with Windows?
Heard that at some instances the refund has been around three euros... Perhaps that could be challenged somehow, if its still the case.
B) Can you resell the Windows license?
The court case was not exactly on reselling OEM-licenses separated from their hardware. The case means that reselling your hardware together with the license is certainly permitted, but it probably didn't answer this question directly. Is it so people are interpreting it? It would be interesting to follow such a case though...
Martin
Hi Otto,
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Otto Kekäläinen otto@fsfe.org wrote:
(adding cc finland@)
2012/9/17 Denis Zalewsky denis.zalewsky@gmail.com:
Hi Otto,
I remember you told me that there is a law and possibility to get Windows refund in Finland if I do not want to use it on my PC. Can you give me some directions/hint regarding how to do it?
There are two related issues A) Can you get a refund of the license if you buy a computer with Windows? B) Can you resell the Windows license?
First case A:
Here is a recent article of a MS-guy explaining that a refund should be possible, but it can take a month and some work to do the process: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2011/08/microsoft-windows-oem-lisenssista-korvau...
This of course represents the views and policies of Microsoft and their resellers. I'm not aware of a legal case, where MS or a reseller has denied the refund and a customer would have disputed it.
Personally I'd advice not to buy a MS computer in the first place, there is plenty of availability of preloaded Linux machines and machines with no preloaded OS at all. I have experience buying stuff from Dell.fi, https://www.thinkpenguin.com/, http://www.ggsdata.se/ and http://www.campusdiscount.de/
I think one of the biggest reasons why Linux on desktops has not succeeded is that current Linux desktop users don't support the preinstalled Linux industry, but rather buy cheap Windows-computers from Gigantti etc. With secure boot etc restrictions this might change and give a very compelling incentive to every Linux user to never by a preloaded Windows machine in the future anymore.
Then case B:
Microsoft EULA says you can't resell OEM licenses. The MS guy have even blogged about a recent case in Finland where MS sued a unemployed person for selling old OEM licenses from scrapped computers: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2011/05/etela-savon-karajaoikeus-3-5-201/
However there was an earlier court decision in Finland from 2003 says that MS EULA infringes consumer rights and some restriction parts are not legally valid. More coverage from the MS guy: http://www.hongisto.info/wp/2003/05/microsoft-oem-lisenssien-jalleenmyynnist...
Luckily there has been a EU court decision later that confirms EU wide, that resale restrictions in EULA are not valid: http://fin.afterdawn.com/uutiset/artikkeli.cfm/2012/07/05/eu_n_tuomioistuin_... (with link to sources that are in English)
Summary of both: http://www.yrittajat.fi/fi-FI/etela-pohjanmaanyrittajat/soini/uutinen/?group...
Thank you for the information. I'll share this information with my colleagues, it will be very helpful.
- denis
-- Otto Kekäläinen [] otto@fsfe.org Finnish Team Coordinator [][][] finland@fsfe.org Free Software Foundation Europe || +358 44 566 2204 Support FSFE! http://fsfe.org/support?otto
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