Hi Rikard, Hi all !
[*update on the previous conversation*
Rikard has notified us that Swedish authorities tend to use more and more PDF forms created in a way that PDF readers other than Adobe Acrobat Reader (hereafter AA Reader) can open it but display :
"To view the full contents of this document, you need a later version of the PDF viewer. You can upgrade to the latest version of Adobe Reader from www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html For further support, go to www.adobe.com/support/products/acrreader.html"
an example: http://polisen.se/Vastra_Gotaland/sv/Service/Blanketter/Tillstand/Vanliga-bl...
A developper from Evince helped us determine the source of the problem :
- the PDF is specially crafted so you won't be able to see it unless you are using Adobe reader and a new version... - the institution seems to be using Adobe Live Cycling to create the PDFs.
We think it a good idea to contact the institutions to make them aware that this is a problem... Rikard has declared himself ready to contact them, but we might need some help in preparation of the contact]
Rikard already contacted the Swedish police who was quite little understanding :
On 01/19/2011 01:26 PM, Rikard Fröberg wrote:
I actually contacted the Swedish Police on this matter and described the
situation thoroughly to them, explaining each step and the implications of them offering applications in a form that requires particular software, proprietary no less, and got a confused reply where they explained: "Yes, we are aware. That's why we changed to PDF recently." Is there a wiki or so, on which I could create a sub page for this PDF
forms problem? I could start listing Swedish institutions offering this crippled format and provide example links there.
I.e. they didn't understand that the PDFs they create cause a problem similar to when they had *other* file formats before. Sigh.
So, first, Rikard, we would need to know exactly what you explained to them, so that we know what arguments are not convincing for them.
From what I see so far, *We need to explain them* :
- PDF is an Open Standard [1] - Open Standard are precisely here to make sure several programs from several developpers / companies can open then, i.e. to make sure to ensure *independence from vendor*, *maximal accessibility for the public* and *compatibility*. - In creating / editing PDFs that can only be open by AA Reader deprives the Standard from its advantages, but worse, it forces people into using one program, into buying it from one vendor (being locked with him), and the fact that it is free of charge is no parameter here. - They could improve their accessibility in creating forms that are not crafted, that can be open by any program designed to open the standard. - we can help them to figure out how to do that
*we should not say* : - The way they create their form is wrong -> they would probably react not be very listening if we start telling them they are wrong, we should rather tell them they can be better.
*What we need to search in preparation*:
- Free Software PDF readers are not very performant with forms. They can usually open them, but not save the information entered, and not perform a check-up routine. We need to determine which software are good at *editing* PDFs that can be open by all readers. It would be better here to have Free Software to suggest, in case they aren't, I guess it would already be an improvement to have institutions publish forms that can be open by Free Software even if they are created by a proprietary one... - Rikard suggested there were possibilities to create forms with Open Office or libre Office. Nico here tested Open Office, it worked for what concerns the form functions, but we couldn't figure out how to design the layout we wanted for the PDF... Some research here would be good before recommending these options - other options would be good.
- @Rikard : there is the possibility to create a wiki page on FSFE's wiki (wiki.fsfe.org). If you don't have an account there, either one of the Fellows in Sweden could help you create the list of institutions, or you can create a guest account [2].
*Do you have other ideas, comments on how we can procede here*?
Thanks for your involvement here,
Regards
Maëlle
[1] http://pdfreaders.org/os.en.html [2] https://wiki.fsfe.org/UserGuide#Guest_accounts