Hi Martin,
Am Thursday 15 January 2009 22:12:01 schrieben Sie:
> Hello again Hannes.
>
> Thank you for the info and clarifications, I agree that
> it's much better with a free pdf reader than a proprietary.
>
> Sorry for the rant. There's some conflict in my mind...
> If we do some thought experiment, lets say we have a prefs checkbox
> that allow users to print even though the not-allowed-flag is set, would
> the reader still be standard compliant? (I mean, it does allow printing
> in practice)
I think it might lose standard-compliance... Thats probably why okular and
kpdf "respect" DRM by default. It is also possible to build Okular without the
option of deactivating DRM.
> If so, how about a "print (please)" button next to "print", that ignores
> the not-allows-flag. Still standard compliant?
> It's hard to draw the line...
>
> Anyway thank you for a great campaign, the world
> needs more Free Software users and more knowledge.
Thanks! Please tell other people about the campaign and try to convince some
webmasters ;)
Hannes
> Peace!
> /Martin
>
> Hannes Hauswedell wrote:
> > Hi Martin,
> >
> > I am not sure to which version of pdf the DRM belongs and whether those
> > classify as "open standards". We havent yet decided if we will offer more
> > information on pdf-revisions, if yes, we will probably include
> > information about DRM.
> >
> > The question whether all versions of this standard should be rejected
> > because some or all include the possibility for DRM is difficult to
> > answer. This site was definitely not meant as an advertising campaign for
> > PDF though, it was meant to inform about Software Freedom.
> > PDF is widely used and the Adobe Reader is widely referred to; it is
> > something "regular users" look for. The goal of pdfreaders.org is to
> > establish an alternative source for PDF-Reader-downloads and using it to
> > promote free useable alternatives ("the readers") aswell as the social
> > and ethical idea of software freedom.
> >
> > Concerning the PDF-DRM in reality:
> > The concept is security by obscurity, the printing block does not involve
> > encryption of any kind. If the file is encrypted than the "user-password"
> > is sufficient to get full access to the file.
> >
> > I am not sure about Sumatra, but Okular and KPDF offer a checkbox for
> > ignoring DRM in the settings. You can then also print an encrypted file
> > to an unencrypted file (if you have the user-pw).
> > xpdf does not (it is not hard to patch though, I did it a while back)
> > Evince ?
> >
> > But the whole point of Software Freedom is that all kind of DRM
> > implemented can be removed! Therefor I am decidedly against removing a
> > certain free software-reader because we don't like the developers' stand
> > on DRM. As long as the software is free, it can be altered to ignore the
> > DRM. This is main message we should convey.
> >
> > Please note that this is just my own opinion and not a joint statement of
> > the pdfreaders-team or fsfe.
> >
> > In Solidarity
> > Hannes
> >
> > Am Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2009 21:44:37 schrieb Martin Eklund:
> >> Hello!
> >> My name is Martin Eklund, a member of FSF since about a year.
> >> Sometime ago I was reading this spec:
> >>
> >> http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm//gmguide2.pdf/
> >>
> >> I wanted to grab some sentences to my notes, so
> >> I pressed ctrl-c, however it did not seem to work.
> >> I looked in various menus and I was furious when
> >> I found out this apparent bug, was actually announced
> >> as a "feature" in the pdf reader.
> >>
> >> Maybe I am mistaken, but I do believe this DRM is not
> >> just implementation, it is actually a part of the pdf standard.
> >> To give "content-creators" the power to block copying,
> >> and printing of documents. (taking control away from
> >> the end user)
> >>
> >> In my mind, this is clearly against the philosophy of FSF.
> >> This kind of stuff is also implemented in the some of the
> >> software you are listing on the campaign site.
> >> At the sumatra pdf changelog:
> >>
> >> http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/news.html
> >>
> >> one can read, at "0.6 (2007-04-29)"
> >>
> >> "don't allow printing in PDFs that have printing forbidden"
> >>
> >>
> >> I like standards, and pdf is technically quite ok.
> >> But I cannot fully embrace a standard claiming
> >> that apparent bugs are features. The best way to
> >> handle this would be to create a kind of "relaxed mode"
> >> pdf, where the DRM parts of the standard are avoided.
> >>
> >> Perhaps all this was discussed before the campaign was launched, I don't
> >> know.
> >> Let me know your thoughts on this.
> >>
> >> Peace.
> >> /Martin
> >> http://music.teadrinker.net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pdfreaders mailing list
> >> Pdfreaders(a)lists.fsfe.org
> >> https://lists.fsfe.org/mailman/listinfo/pdfreaders
Hi,
I'd like to use the logos at
http://www.pdfreaders.org/graphics.fr.html - but I'd like to present a
French logo to my non-English-speaking visitors.
Do you have an XCF file that I could easily edit to properly alter the
text (without messing the gradient)?
Thanks!
--
Sylvain
Hello!
My name is Martin Eklund, a member of FSF since about a year.
Sometime ago I was reading this spec:
http://www.midi.org/about-midi/gm//gmguide2.pdf/
I wanted to grab some sentences to my notes, so
I pressed ctrl-c, however it did not seem to work.
I looked in various menus and I was furious when
I found out this apparent bug, was actually announced
as a "feature" in the pdf reader.
Maybe I am mistaken, but I do believe this DRM is not
just implementation, it is actually a part of the pdf standard.
To give "content-creators" the power to block copying,
and printing of documents. (taking control away from
the end user)
In my mind, this is clearly against the philosophy of FSF.
This kind of stuff is also implemented in the some of the
software you are listing on the campaign site.
At the sumatra pdf changelog:
http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/news.html
one can read, at "0.6 (2007-04-29)"
"don't allow printing in PDFs that have printing forbidden"
I like standards, and pdf is technically quite ok.
But I cannot fully embrace a standard claiming
that apparent bugs are features. The best way to
handle this would be to create a kind of "relaxed mode"
pdf, where the DRM parts of the standard are avoided.
Perhaps all this was discussed before the campaign was launched, I don't
know.
Let me know your thoughts on this.
Peace.
/Martin
http://music.teadrinker.net
Hi,
lately I've been using Okular on Windows (last 3 months) to preview Latex
documents. I'd like to see it added to the list of Windows PDF readers :)
Okular unlike Acrobat does not lock the file, so I was able to compile the
latex source and it would automatically get updated in the viewer.
Installing Okular on Windows is pretty easy - just grab the installer from
windows.kde.org and select kdegraphics to be installed.
Regards,
Frederik
Hi Sylvain,
Thanks for your translated PDFreaders graphics. I have now uploaded them
to the Fellowship Wiki:
http://wiki.fsfe.org/Free-PDF-Readers-Campaign/Logo
I'm also working on an upgrade of pdfreaders.org which will feature
localised graphics. We will publish your buttons there as well.
all the best,
/Stian
> -------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Betreff: Re: Graphics source for French translation
> I attach 2 modified versions. The French text is longer so I tried to
> ajust. I didn't translate free_3.svg because 'free' is difficult to
> modify.
>
>
> Here are the translations:
>
> Get a PDF READER - 4 FREEDOMS included
> => Installez un LECTEUR PDF - 4 LIBERTÉS incluses
>
> Get a *free* PDF READER
> => Installez un LECTEUR PDF *libre*
>
> Get a PDF READER - FREEDOM included
> => Installez un LECTEUR PDF - LIBERTÉ incluse
>
>
> For the new logos:
> Get freePDF Readers
> => Installez des Lecteurs PDF libres
>
>
> I would appreciate credit if translated logos are used :)
>
> Cheers!
Hi, mi name is Luis Alberto Guzman,
I was checking the PDFreaders.org [1] site, and i was wondering if there is
any spanish version avaliable, for Spanish speaking users, i can deal wih
the english language but i would like to spread the site word across my
friends here in México. And well, many of them would appreciate if they
could read it on their natural language.
If there isn't any version available i would be glad to help translate it.
Many thanks!
[1] http://pdfreaders.org
--
Luis A. Guzmán García
Hi List,
I had a conversation with Marcel in German.
He just misunderstood my English.
We will not add sumatra portable to our list.
so far,
HennR
Marcel Klinz [PC-BSD.de] schrieb:
> hä?
>
> sumatra is not a portable reader at first. it is compiled out of a
> source code. sumatra is a opensorce pdf reader. so what are you
> searching for?
>
> this is the official website
> http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/
> cheers
> marcel
>
> HennR schrieb:
>> Hi Marcel,
>>
>> we discussed this link and decided to not adding this to our site, as
>> it will confuse most people.
>>
>> When somebody really wants a pdf reader on his USB Stick he will look
>> for that (and for sure he will look at portableapps.com first ;)
>>
>> Anyway, thanks for the hint.
>>
>> Greetings
>>
>> HennR
>>
>> Marcel Klinz [PC-BSD.de] schrieb:
>>> http://portableapps.com/apps/office/sumatra_pdf_portable
>>>
>>> maybe a new app for this page
>>>
>>> cheers
>>> marcel
>>>
>>> www.pc-bsd.de
>
Here his answer:
* Marcel Klinz [PC-BSD.de] <m.klinz(a)pc-bsd.de> [2009-01-07 15:09:29 +0100]:
> das ist wohl die offizielle seite:
> http://blog.kowalczyk.info/software/sumatrapdf/
>
> und als portable version auch super unter wine zu benutzen.
Hannes, Henner... what do you think???
I am unsure about this portable app version.
Best wishes,
Matthias
--
Deputy German Coordinator, Fellowship Coordinator
Free Software Foundation Europe (FSFE) [] (http://fsfeurope.org)
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