Hi PDF-reader.
I consider crawling all public websites in Denmark to find Acrobat commercials. But before I do that I would like to see the following on pdfreaders.org:
* Translation into Danish. Jonas has promised to help you with that.
* Shortening of URL. Can you update DNS so that xx.pdfreaders.org shows www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html?
Regards,
Ole Tange
Hi Ole,
On 01/07/2011 05:57 PM, Ole Tange wrote:
I consider crawling all public websites in Denmark to find Acrobat commercials.
Thanks for your motivation in helping us out on the campaign !
But before I do that I would like to see the following on
pdfreaders.org:
- Translation into Danish. Jonas has promised to help you with that.
The page is not translated yet for we haven't had anybody able to translate it into Danish yet. If Jonas is ready to help, we welcome his work of course !
Please consider the page http://www.fsfe.org/contribute/translators.en.html to have all necessary information for that.
for the http://www.pdfreaders.org/ website, I'll have to send you directly the pages to translate. Please contact me when you, or Joinas are ready to translate.
- Shortening of URL. Can you update DNS so that xx.pdfreaders.org
shows www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html?
What page are you talking about ?
The campaign page : http://www.fsfe.org/campaigns/pdfreaders/ or this page :
http://www.pdfreaders.org/ (in which case, I don't see how to make it shorter)
Please be however aware, that for FSFE part, we cannot go on expanding the list [1] nor reopen the form that helped by the collection of institutions. Still if you have time to work with Danish institutions, we would be really happy to see progress there, and would help the best we can to make it happen !
Regards
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:32:12AM +0100, Maelle Costa wrote:
Hi Ole,
On 01/07/2011 05:57 PM, Ole Tange wrote:
I consider crawling all public websites in Denmark to find Acrobat commercials.
Thanks for your motivation in helping us out on the campaign !
But before I do that I would like to see the following on
pdfreaders.org:
- Translation into Danish. Jonas has promised to help you with that.
The page is not translated yet for we haven't had anybody able to translate it into Danish yet. If Jonas is ready to help, we welcome his work of course !
Please consider the page http://www.fsfe.org/contribute/translators.en.html to have all necessary information for that.
for the http://www.pdfreaders.org/ website, I'll have to send you directly the pages to translate. Please contact me when you, or Joinas are ready to translate.
I got distracted last we spoke, Maelle, but am still interested in helping out with translation.
I am, however, less interested in a one-off direct html→html translation of pdfreader.org. I would preer to help you extend your current workflow with gettext-based translations using po4a.
If you haven't heard from me in a week on this, then please do remind me again!
Oh, and great initiative, Ole!
- Jonas
hi Jonas,
* Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk [2011-01-10 12:22:02 +0100]:
I am, however, less interested in a one-off direct html→html translation of pdfreader.org. I would preer to help you extend your current workflow with gettext-based translations using po4a.
Thanks for the offer. However we are currently using webgen for pdfreaders.org and will soon migrate it to FSFE's website generator so we use the same system on most websites.
All the best, Matthias
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 01:58:59PM +0100, Matthias Kirschner wrote:
hi Jonas,
- Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk [2011-01-10 12:22:02 +0100]:
I am, however, less interested in a one-off direct html→html translation of pdfreader.org. I would preer to help you extend your current workflow with gettext-based translations using po4a.
Thanks for the offer. However we are currently using webgen for pdfreaders.org and will soon migrate it to FSFE's website generator so we use the same system on most websites.
How does that relate to my sentence?
Do perhaps the FSFE website already have gettext-based i18n support?
I noticed there is your mailinglist for FSFE translators, but its archive is closed to the public and I didn't bother to create a login just to see if maybe discussions there revealed your current translation routines.
Regards,
- Jonas
Hi Jonas,
* Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk [2011-01-10 15:03:24 +0100]:
- Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk [2011-01-10 12:22:02 +0100]:
I am, however, less interested in a one-off direct html→html translation of pdfreader.org. I would preer to help you extend your current workflow with gettext-based translations using po4a.
Thanks for the offer. However we are currently using webgen for pdfreaders.org and will soon migrate it to FSFE's website generator so we use the same system on most websites.
How does that relate to my sentence?
Do perhaps the FSFE website already have gettext-based i18n support?
We do not use gettext, but we will also most likely not move from our current translation system to gettext. I CCed web@fsfeurope.org for that.
I noticed there is your mailinglist for FSFE translators, but its archive is closed to the public and I didn't bother to create a login just to see if maybe discussions there revealed your current translation routines.
Yes, they are private because we do not want search engines to find our press releases before they are sent out.
The technical implementation of the translation system is task of the web team.
All the best, Matthias
Hi Maëlle.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Maelle Costa maelle@fsfe.org wrote:
- Shortening of URL. Can you update DNS so that xx.pdfreaders.org
shows www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html?
What page are you talking about ?
The translated pages are called: www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html where xx is the language code.
Eg. Norwgian bokmål is: http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.nb.html
What I am suggesting is making http://nb.pdfreaders.org an alias for http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.nb.html with similar aliases for other translations - so the Danish would be: http://da.pdfreaders.org which would show http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.da.html when the page has been translated.
To do this you need to add nb.pdfreaders.org and da.pdfreaders.org to DNS and to the webserver config and make a redirection to the other webpage. This can be done in a lot of different ways. Let me know if this is still unclear.
Please be however aware, that for FSFE part, we cannot go on expanding the list [1] nor reopen the form that helped by the collection of institutions. Still if you have time to work with Danish institutions, we would be really happy to see progress there, and would help the best we can to make it happen !
I have no idea what you meant by that paragraph. If it is important can you elaborate on what you meant by it?
/Ole
PS: Will we meet at FOSDEM?
Hello Ole,
On 10/01/2011 12:36, Ole Tange wrote:
Hi Maëlle.
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Maelle Costa maelle@fsfe.org wrote:
- Shortening of URL. Can you update DNS so that xx.pdfreaders.org
shows www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html?
What page are you talking about ?
The translated pages are called: www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html where xx is the language code.
Eg. Norwgian bokmål is: http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.nb.html
What I am suggesting is making http://nb.pdfreaders.org an alias for http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.nb.html with similar aliases for other translations - so the Danish would be: http://da.pdfreaders.org which would show http://www.pdfreaders.org/index.da.html when the page has been translated.
To do this you need to add nb.pdfreaders.org and da.pdfreaders.org to DNS and to the webserver config and make a redirection to the other webpage. This can be done in a lot of different ways. Let me know if this is still unclear.
This would of course be possible, but there is a point because of which it may not be needed. Indeed, our main page http://pdfreaders.org automatically redirects the visitor to http://pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html, where xx is guessed from the user agent (if I guess correctly, but I might be wrong, I would have to go check).
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
Please be however aware, that for FSFE part, we cannot go on expanding the list [1] nor reopen the form that helped by the collection of institutions. Still if you have time to work with Danish institutions, we would be really happy to see progress there, and would help the best we can to make it happen !
I have no idea what you meant by that paragraph. If it is important can you elaborate on what you meant by it?
Maëlle meant that we had phases in our campaign. The first of those was to ask people to report urls of "faulting" institutions. The second was to send letters to these institutions. The current one is to wait for them to change their pages and follow progress. For this reason, we are not going to redo any of the first two steps (until next time we launch the campaign).
Therefore, if you want to contact new institutions, you will have to contact them and gather the results (and the pride ;)) yourself. We can do little more than announcing your positive results, if you want.
Thanks, Nico
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
On 10/01/2011 12:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Mon, Jan 10, 2011 at 11:32 AM, Maelle Costa maelle@fsfe.org wrote:
- Shortening of URL. Can you update DNS so that xx.pdfreaders.org
shows www.pdfreaders.org/index.xx.html?
:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
I have tried with around 10 different combinations of browsers and systems and only found the English. Maybe it is because the Danish is missing. If you put a dummy Danish page I will be happy to let you know if that in practise solves it.
Maëlle meant that we had phases in our campaign. The first of those was to ask people to report urls of "faulting" institutions. The second was to send letters to these institutions.
Ahh... I was not aware of this.
Therefore, if you want to contact new institutions, you will have to contact them and gather the results (and the pride ;)) yourself. We can do little more than announcing your positive results, if you want.
Which is what I intended in the first place. But it would be helpful if you could publish the standard letter you send to non-compliant institutions - it might be good as inspiration.
/Ole
Hi Ole,
On 01/11/2011 03:36 PM, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
Therefore, if you want to contact new institutions, you will have to contact them and gather the results (and the pride ;)) yourself. We can do little more than announcing your positive results, if you want.
Which is what I intended in the first place. But it would be helpful if you could publish the standard letter you send to non-compliant institutions - it might be good as inspiration.
All the material we used to contact the institutions is online. You can find the model letter at : http://www.fsfe.org/campaigns/pdfreaders/letter.en.html. You can easily translate it into Danish.
Nico has also created a script which automatically replaces the addresses and the URL in the letter provided that you store the information this way :
<bug institution-name="NAME" institution-address="ADDRESS" institution-url="www.blablabla.org" />
This way, if you are at ease with LaTEX encoding, you can automatically generate your versions of the letters, or you can send us the data of the institutions and we could generate them for you (and then what's left to you is to decide if you want to contact them in your own name or in FSFE's name).
I hope I've be understandable this time, if not, just don't hesitate to ask for clarifications ;)
Regards
On 11/01/2011 15:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
I have tried with around 10 different combinations of browsers and systems and only found the English. Maybe it is because the Danish is missing. If you put a dummy Danish page I will be happy to let you know if that in practise solves it.
I have added the said dummy page, it is located at: http://pdfreaders.org/index.da.html For test purpose, the title says "Get a Free Software PDF reader _in Danish_!". Let me know if it works this way.
Cheers, Nico
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
On 11/01/2011 15:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
I have tried with around 10 different combinations of browsers and systems and only found the English. Maybe it is because the Danish is missing. If you put a dummy Danish page I will be happy to let you know if that in practise solves it.
I have added the said dummy page, it is located at: http://pdfreaders.org/index.da.html For test purpose, the title says "Get a Free Software PDF reader _in Danish_!". Let me know if it works this way.
Iceweasel/3.5.16 (Debian): No Lynx 2.8.8dev.6 (Debian): No Konqueror (Debian): No Chromium 6.0.472.63 (Debian): No Browser (Android): No Firefox 3.6.13 (Windows XP): No Chrome 8.0.552.224 (Windows XP): No
I can try Firefox, Lynx, Konqueror and Chromium on Ubuntu tomorrow, but already I see a clear trend.
/Ole
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 10:08:11PM +0100, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
On 11/01/2011 15:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
I have tried with around 10 different combinations of browsers and systems and only found the English. Maybe it is because the Danish is missing. If you put a dummy Danish page I will be happy to let you know if that in practise solves it.
I have added the said dummy page, it is located at: http://pdfreaders.org/index.da.html For test purpose, the title says "Get a Free Software PDF reader _in Danish_!". Let me know if it works this way.
Iceweasel/3.5.16 (Debian): No Lynx 2.8.8dev.6 (Debian): No Konqueror (Debian): No Chromium 6.0.472.63 (Debian): No Browser (Android): No Firefox 3.6.13 (Windows XP): No Chrome 8.0.552.224 (Windows XP): No
I can try Firefox, Lynx, Konqueror and Chromium on Ubuntu tomorrow, but already I see a clear trend.
Agreed.
Pay attention to Content-Language in the response of this command:
wget -S --spider --header='Accept-Language: de' http://pdfreaders.org
It shows that the site properly switches to german when requested. But
wget -S --spider --header='Accept-Language: da' http://pdfreaders.org
...resolves to serving the english page. Compare that with a site which does handle danish:
wget -S --spider --header='Accept-Language: da' http://dr.jones.dk
- Jonas
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 10:08:11PM +0100, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
On 11/01/2011 15:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
[... the dummy page in Danish seems not to be selected ...]
wget -S --spider --header='Accept-Language: da' http://pdfreaders.org
Depending on the user having configured the Accept-Language header correctly is IMHO not a solution for Danes. There are simply too many people in Denmark that have that configured wrongly. So if the automatic solution is dependent on this, then we clearly need the http://da.pdfreaders.org.
/Ole
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 11:02:42AM +0100, Ole Tange wrote:
On Wed, Jan 12, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Jonas Smedegaard dr@jones.dk wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 10:08:11PM +0100, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
On 11/01/2011 15:36, Ole Tange wrote:
On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Nicolas JEAN nicoulas@fsfe.org wrote:
This way, you just have to point people to http://pdfreaders.org and they will be served with a language-adapted index page. Do you have cases in which this is not sufficient or fit?
[... the dummy page in Danish seems not to be selected ...]
wget -S --spider --header='Accept-Language: da' http://pdfreaders.org
Depending on the user having configured the Accept-Language header correctly is IMHO not a solution for Danes. There are simply too many people in Denmark that have that configured wrongly. So if the automatic solution is dependent on this, then we clearly need the http://da.pdfreaders.org.
An _automatic_ solution needs to rely on some sort of automation. Would certainly be better if _also_ taking geolocation into account, but that is more advanced than content-negotiation and not reliable either.
Thing is, the automation (even leaving out the Accept-Language) does not work for danish at the moment.
What you now bring up regarding automation not being reliable is only solved by a known-to-be-correct URL instead of automation at all. I.e. http://pdfreaders.org/index.da.html - which exist now albeit not translated - or that shorter http://da.pdfreaders.dk/ URL you proposed.
- Jonas