[Fsfe-ie] IPRED2 saga

Daithi Mac Sithigh daithi1 at gmail.com
Thu Oct 20 02:20:42 CEST 2005

Framework decisions are normally related to the 'third  
pillar' (police and justice) rather than the original 'European  
Community', which is the 'first pillar' and has the more familiar  
directives, regulations and recommendations.  As far as I understand  
it, you need unanimity for a framework decision, although there was a  
major case last month that leaned towards allowing direct criminal  
sanctions for environmental law, which adds confusion...

Data retention was an example of a proposed framework decision.  The  
'advantage' for some promoters is that the European Parliament is  
sidelined (in favour of the Council of Ministers)

The scrutiny committee typically just looks at the matter and decides  
if it's routine or not, and discusses it briefly, sending it off (for  
info or for debate) to another committee.  I'd presume that, given  
that there are two departments involved here to begin with (Entemp  
and Justice), they need all the info before trying to go any further  
with it.

For the moment, it's still very much wait and see.


On 19 Oct 2005, at 22:50, teresahackett at eircom.net wrote:

> It just means that they've postponed discussion on IPRED2.
> The reason is because there are two parts to IPRED2: a Council  
> framework decision and a proposal for a Directive. A "framework  
> decision" and a "directive" represent two separate legislative and  
> political processes. We usually just come across directives in our  
> field of work.
> For IPRED2, however, they need also a framework decision. This is  
> because they want to introduce criminal sanctions for copyright and  
> patent infringements. Criminal sanctions are normally only a matter  
> for Member States (under the principle of subsidiarity). The  
> Council framework decision is necessary to override the principle  
> of subsidiarity in this instance, so that there can be European  
> legislation on this issue. Otherwise, the Directive could be  
> challenged in the ECJ and would be likely deemed illegal. There is  
> case law on this. This is why criminal sanctions were removed from  
> IPRED1, as it was likely the Directive would have been struck down  
> by the ECJ.
> The Scrutiny Committee usually get an information note from the  
> responsible department on any draft European legislation. In this  
> case, they have only received an information note on one part, the  
> framework decision. They haven't got a note on the directive, the  
> part of substance for us. So they postponed their discussion until  
> they get do.
> Does this make sense?
> Teresa
> Ian Clarke wrote:
>> On 19 Oct 2005, at 14:49, Daithí Mac Síthigh wrote:
>>> Here's what little was said in the Dáil committee:
>>> "On the matter of deferred documents there is one proposal for   
>>> deferral. Proposal 4.1, COM (2005) 276, is for a Council  
>>> framework  decision to strengthen the criminal law framework to  
>>> combat  intellectual property offences. The lead Department is  
>>> the  Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the  
>>> other  Department with an interest is the Department of  
>>> Enterprise, Trade  and Employment. There are two parts to this  
>>> proposal and the  secretariat has, to date, received a note that  
>>> concerns only the  proposed framework decision. The Department  
>>> has indicated that an  additional note would be provided in  
>>> regard to the proposed  directive concerning criminal measures  
>>> aimed at ensuring the  enforcement of intellectual property  
>>> rights. It is proposed to  defer consideration of this proposal  
>>> until the additional  information note is received by the  
>>> Department. Is that agreed?  Agreed."
>> Can anyone translate that into English?  What are the implications  
>> of  this, if any?
>> Ian._______________________________________________
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